Ferrari 458 Speciale vs Porsche 911 GT3 RS

Speciale!

the special can and has beat the gt3 rs on several tracks, and the gt3 rs has won several times on other tracks. but the speciale is faster than the gt3 rs in s straight line - after 80km/h the Ferrari just keeps pulling away after 1000m the gt3 rs does it in 20.5@256.0kmh and the speciale 19.4@271kmh. Porsche 0-100mph in 6.8 sec and Ferrari 6.1 sec

458 Speciale vs Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera roll drag race:

Ona track with long stright, Ferrari is Faster.

On every track 991 RS will be faster than 458 speciale. *
In normal road Speciale is faster.
* with the same driver.

Lmao

BTW it don't need Speciale to beat Turbo S on PZeros
.............................................. Autocar Dry ... Balocco ..... Tsukuba .... Magny Cours
458 Italia .. - Super Sport ... - .. 1:08.90 ...... 2:43.90 .... 1:02.24 ....... 1:20.16
991 Turbo S . - P Zero ......... - .. 1:09.60 ...... 2:45.48 .... 1:02.35 ....... 1:20.70

There is an effect that leds to lots discrepancies and rumors. 911TS is always faster 0-100kph 0-130kph than others. So it's easy to believe that TS must be better in acceleration, but Speciale and e.g. 650S close the gap at higher speed and finish first.
On track, the time 100-200kph is more relevant.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGxbfLh4KE

I would like to see a customers Ferrari cars that had acceleration measured by race logic-vbox.

Has anyone of you guys ever seen that kind of stuff ?

'doesn't mean it always has 605hp. Most of the time it has between 400-600', makes a fool of yourself. Most of the time, means the engine don't feel comfortable sometimes and don't work?
Everything depends on surplus of tractive effort and that can be calculated for every single rev (Nmrev/9550).
You have no idea. As long as the product revstorque produces higher numbers, yes I keep thinking that higher revs always equal more power.
You say GT3 has at 9krpm the same power as 7k. Watch the diagramm (www.akrapovic-shop.de/typo3temp/pics/2e0ce0f9d6.jpg) and it is easy to see, that rising from 7000 rpm up, gives 70 hp extra. I don't care about your 9000rpm or 15000rpm.
Also it's not useless to change gear at maximum power, it's smart, that means best performance and no, Speciale has no limiter at max hp.

And "PZeros are more consistently fast off the line than trofeo Rs". You have the right to talk such nonsense as you do, since talking rubbish is a human right. It is totally stupid mixing of facts. "PZeros are more consistently fast off the line than trofeo Rs" PZeros are more consistently, yes, but not fast, Trofeo Rs take around 2 sec of every lap of the PZero car.
And GT3 RS will beginn with 10,2 and than go into 9, physics don't exist and earth is flat.
Here is the fact, what's the difference between PZero and Maxx Race on Turbo S (BTW Trofeo Rs are much faster than Maxx Race):
Porsche 991 Turbo S with Maxx Race is 2,2 sec and 2,55 sec faster than Camaro Z/28 on Trofeo R at Laguna Seca and Big Willow. On Virginia Int Raceway and Barber Motorsp. Park TS is 0,3 sec and 0,17 sec slower with PZero. So PZeros are around 2,7 sec slower on whole track and Trofeo Rs are faster than Maxx Race.

'A Porsche TS does NOT have more power than a speciale. It keeps up because 1) it's AWD, 2) at lower speeds up to 100mph, power isn't as big a factor,'
yes, that's the reason why a VW Golf GTI is as fast to 160mph as a TS, because lower speeds up to 100mph, power isn't as big a factor.

and on and on ... but it makes no sense to discuss with people form their own opinion from Porsche advertisement and fan magazines.

you keep thinking that higher revs always equal more power... but the GT3 peaks power at 8500rpm and then drops off like mad. At 9krpm it has the same power as 7k. By reducing the max rpm down to 8750, does absolutely nothing to the GT3RS max power. The Speciale on the other hand reaches max power right at the redline, which is useless because you must change up before you run into the limiter.

Lol. You are so stupid. First of all, a Turbo S can do 9.6 with Pzeros. I don't care about your Dunlop maxx what ever. Motortrend have shown Pzeros are actually more consistently fast off the line than trofeo Rs.

And secondly that everyone knows when Porsche says a car can do 0-200 in 10.9, the car CAN do it, and even faster. The car doesn't "start with 10.9 and end up 9.9" with a rocket booster in the back. The car will probably do low 10.2 to begin with. Porsche give realistic performance figures that in ideal circumstances, can be bettered. /facepalm A less powerful, heavier, less grippy GT3 can do 10.9, a more powerful, wider track lighter GT3 RS will better that.

Just cuz an engine has max power at say 605hp, doesn't mean it always has 605hp. Most of the time it has between 400-600. A Porsche TS has a very flat power curve and from 5k revs to redline, it maintains at least 90% power the whole time, averaging about 95% power when accelearting. So climbing through the gears, the Speciale avgs 500-520hp only, while the TS actually avgs about 550hp.

A Porsche TS does NOT have more power than a speciale. It keeps up because 1) it's AWD, 2) at lower speeds up to 100mph, power isn't as big a factor, 3) at higher speeds, the Porsche is much more aerodynamic.

Ferrari lose in those drag races because a lack of torque. But in turn it is quicker in trickier conditions compared to mclaren.

GT3 RS 10,9 sec is a Porsche number, Turbo S test value with Maxx Race 10,0. Anyway, do you mean GT3 RS starts with 10,9 and ends up with 9,9, may be with a little booster rocket. GT3 RS with 550 hp is 'once upon a time', because Porsche reduced the revs to prevent their engines from dying. The engine is finished with around 500 hp. You forgot, it's a 6 cylinder, with huge pistons and massive oscillating forces.
Yes, it's easy to boost turbo charged engines like TS to 630 hp. No, it's not easy to boost Speciale, because this engine is exhausted and there is the risk of mapping tuning, that test drivers would kill the engine on race track.

@Manone Yes it is true. Turbocharged Porsches have about 10 % more power that it is advertised. Dont know about Mclaren but 625 hp Mp4-12c and 650S are so quick that they can have a few % more power that it is claimed.

But the problem is that customers Ferrari cars usuallyare not able to perform on advertised levels. I always thought that this could be a problem more than 10 years ago...but when i see how customers F12s and 458 perform i understand that this happens also nowadays.

For example there are many movies where stock-customers 458 Italias at best do 1/4 mile in 11,5-11,8s with 125-126 mp/h trap speed. This car is said to do 0-200 km/h in 10,4s. Not even saying about F12.

While for example Mp4s, Huracans, 997 Turbo, 991 Turbos etc reguraly do 1/4 mile in high/mid 10s.

Ferrari cars may have bad launch control start systems ok...But they are also not so good afer 100 km/h.

let me get this straight, since i think i am missing something in this discussion. from the posted data:

that crank power of 458speciale is spot on with what claimed.

crank power of 991turbo s is higher than what claimed by porsche, not surprisingly, since keeps the pace of speciale weighing much more. Unsuprisingly, even because it is MUCH easier to pump higher power figures with turbocharged engines than NA engines, as ANYBODY posting on a car forum should very well know.

CONCLUSION: ferrari is cheating their customers since their cars loose in roll races with turbocharged Porsches, McLaren, etc
Wow, it makes perfect sense to me!

It may be true. In another words Ferraris performance claims are laboratory. Perfect surface, perfect conditions, perfect driver and most likely the results are performed by cars with lightening options (if you look at Ferraris official site the weight of Fcars is the weight of car with lightening options ! )...Mayby this is a reason why customers Ferrari cars are so much slower than it is claimed.

This kind of politic is a realy bad thing for such a great company like Ferrari.

I think if they changed this politic they would be even more successful brand. But i dont know whether they realize about that matter.

There is a little chance that 488 will be a real competitor against cars like 991 Turbo S, 650S, Huracan.

Look at that :

These are results !

I have never seen any F-car that in normal conditions was able to perform on this level.

Im almost sure that F12 will also lose in roll drag race against Huracan and 991 Turbo S.

And you all will see that 991 GT3 RS will destroy 458 Speciale on most tracks. If we take a customers Speciale against customers 991 GT3 RS the Ferrari will propably lose also in straight line. Though hope im wrong :).

Well the problem is always... RWD and tirewear. And besides, lots of movies you see are 2 passengers + fuel tank, and it's likely both are full sized blokes. Put a fit driver, with new but heat cycled tires with low fuel on a prepared drag strip, a Speciale/F12 should be able to do it in ~9 seconds.

and bare in mind, Ferrari base their performance figures probably on the Fiorano straight, which is actually a slightly downhill and high-grade tarmac surface.

Porsche base their numbers on avg ordinary roads with fuel and everything.

@Saxy Are you sure that Speciales arent down on power (customers cars)? From movies that i have seen there is no way that customers 458 Speciales are able to do 0-200 km/h in mid 9s.

I have seen that customers F12s are able to do 0-200 km/h in low 10s at best which is very pessimistic result for that car.

I havent seen any proofs that customers F12 and 458 Speciale can do 0-200 km/h in low/mid 9s. And for F12 it would be a still bad result coze this car is said to do 0-200 km/h in 8,5s...

@dddd Auto Buid dyno'ed the Speciale at like 613hp at the crank. And as much as there's more hp than what Porsche state. The supposed 560hp Porsche TS had like 586hp. So hardly a huge difference.

@Jackson. You keep banging about how the GT3RS takes 10.9s to get to 200kph in many posts. The Turbo S is also stated to take 10.3s to get to to 200kph, yet it can actually do it nearly a full second faster than that.